In 2024, Armidale Regional Council (ARC) lost the $5.4 million grant previously allocated to the New England Rail Trail (NERT) because it failed to meet the milestones required by the funding agency. Council blamed administrative barriers within the NSW Government, but the outcome was clear: the project could not deliver. Two further grant applications submitted last year were also unsuccessful.
Despite this poor record—and strong community opposition to using ratepayers’ money on the project—ARC has allocated nearly $500,000 in next year’s budget for preliminary works. This contradicts an earlier Council motion stating that there should be no net cost to ratepayers from the rail trail. Once again, Council seems determined to repeat a failed strategy, hoping for a different result.
At its meeting on 22 October 2025, ARC resolved to restart preliminary work and seek approvals for the rail trail between Armidale and Ben Lomond (67 kilometres). In addition to $500,000 in ratepayers’ funds, Council intends to draw on another $600,000 from an undisclosed external source—spending more than $1 million in total. By comparison, Glen Innes Severn Council is spending only $170,000 on its section. One must ask why ARC’s consultancy costs are so much higher.
Converting an important regional rail corridor that links New England with Queensland into a cycling trail is a short-sighted decision. Restoring the railway from Armidale to the Queensland border would generate far greater benefits—improving mobility, freight capacity, tourism, arts and culture exchange, and environmental sustainability. Rail reactivation supports genuine regional development, while a rail trail removes that opportunity forever.
Local councils are not the ideal level of government to shape region-wide or national transport strategies. They are often driven by narrow local politics and short-term thinking. This case illustrates that point well. In an era when even smaller nations such as East Timor are investing in modern rail systems, how can we justify dismantling an existing corridor?
The NSW Government’s approach to regional transport renewal remains deeply unsatisfactory. While Victoria continues to invest billions in upgrading and reopening regional lines, NSW relies on endless planning exercises—like the so-called Strategic Integrated Regional Transport Plans (SIRTPs)—which appear to delay action rather than deliver it. Meanwhile, billions continue to be spent on Sydney infrastructure while regional communities are left behind.
Both major parties have failed to deliver regional transport justice. Perhaps it is time for the minor parties in Parliament to challenge this imbalance.
At the federal level, the government speaks of decarbonisation and shifting freight from road to rail but has done little to reactivate the Northern Railway Line from Armidale to the Queensland border. Each time I write to the Federal Minister for Infrastructure, Catherine King, I am referred to the State Minister. Each time I write to the State Minister, I am told to wait for the SIRTP process or produce yet another business case. This, after more than 10,000 people signed a petition to the NSW Parliament in 2024 calling for the line’s reactivation. Many residents across New England have received the same dismissive responses.
We are, quite frankly, stuck between a rock and a hard place: dependent on governments to meet our transport needs, yet repeatedly let down by their inaction.
I call on the NSW Government to:
- Conduct a feasibility study for restoring the Northern Railway Line;
- Fund a comprehensive business case for reactivation; and
- Include the Armidale–Queensland rail link in the upcoming Strategic Integrated Regional Transport Plan for New England–North West—instead of prioritising a rail trail from Armidale to Glen Innes.
Our local MPs, ministers, and mayors must also engage in good faith with communities to develop a balanced transport framework—one that allows for recreation but does not destroy our capacity for future rail. Councils should unite communities, not divide them.
If any readers have ideas or suggestions on the way forward, I would welcome hearing from you.
Got something on your mind? Go on then, engage. Submit your opinion piece, letter to the editor, or Quick Word now.
It’s completely insane and quite obviously some kind of scam…the $ necessary to maintain it for a select portion of the population to ride it while keeping loads of cars on the roads to Queensland…?!?!
Michelle Grace the same cars that are on it now, do you mean?
Lee-Anne McKinnon exactly this. I’m not sure what cars they think will come off the road, but there is little to no demand for regular passenger rail services along this corridor when a car is going to be significantly quicker and more able to get you to where you need to be (which is not at the station…) . Freight is also very limited in applications, given that the regions economic uses are mostly around more perishable produce and livestock… so yeah, really no solid arguments in either direction.
Scotty Harrison I agree!!
Scotty Harrison convincing people with cars to catch a slow inconvenient train to a dead end good luck, we made the decision about cars and trucks in the past and we are not going back the figures speak the stark reality of todayMedia: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1922036208344224&set=p.1922036208344224&type=3
If the train was up and running people would definitely use it, and it would keep excess cars and freight trains off the roads. With a growing population and a worsening climate, it’s crazy not to improve public transport wherever possible.
Michelle absolutely rubbish. People barely use it now. Armidale is lucky to have the daily train they do. The average number of people thst use it would fit on a decent sized coach – as for the busses that connect and run further north. You might as well run a Hiace or a Coaster than a full sized coach.
Robin Wills maybe what we actually need is public transport that’s better then one way tickets.
Maybe if we had better services more people would use them if they were usable.
Michelle Grace They never used the Casino to Murwillumbah train. It used to run empty. The bus service that they replaced the train with runs at about 10% of capacity. Mid last year the train to Brisbane broke down north of Casino. They sent two buses to pick up the passengers and crew. A total of 22 people were on board, half were crew. The other half concession card holders . How is rail ever going to be economical? When they shut down the Casino to Murwillumbah Branch, the Bob Carr government was losing $6 million dollars a day on regional rail services. That’s a lot of money wasted that is needed in schools and hospitals. In todays money it would likely be three times that amount.
Michelle Grace are you talking about the idea of spending an insane amount of money for the very small section Of community that would use a train service?
The train service would be twice a day if your lucky, and at inconvenient times. You can’t commute to work on an inland train line. Yet you could commute to work on a rail trail, at the time that suits you.
Seriously how frequently would you, your family your neighbours catch this train. I would be amazed if it was more than once a year (taking visitors on a trip)
Whereas towns with rail trails have a lot of locals who ride it 2 or 3 times a week. Then you add on the once or twice a year tourists.
Grant Hodgins and how many people would commute to work on a rail trail who would live more than a few klm out of town. Hope work has showers 😂😂😂
Michelle Grace If the scam is obvious, you should have no trouble describing it here.
The way things are run in this country, there’s probably some contractor (for “cleaning up the trail”) with ties to the council. They’ll all cash in on the government grants before leaving it to ruin.
…to hazard a guess. I didn’t say the scam was obvious- only that there obviously is one.
Michelle GraceMedia: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10231588000030953&set=p.10231588000030953&type=3
Grant Hodgins, the big difference is people pay to use the trains, we you bike track riders want the rate, and tax payers to pay for you lot to ride the track.
Chris Preston let’s give this sinking ship of an ideal a name, Titanic comes to mind for as it’s already run aground three times it might be time to replace the Captain.
Brian Flint the GM, he is pushing the Bike track.
Chris Preston people don’t pay their way on country trains – they lose over a billion dollars a year! While I love trains and have strong doubts about the rail trail, it’s perfectly reasonable to say that in 2025 economics, running isolated lines (or those with the break-of-gauge problem) is not the best way to spend the public dollar. The line through New England was problematic in the 1800s, which is why they built the North Coast line which offers far faster services because it is built on flatter terrain. It was losing money even when rail was at its peak so why should other NSW taxpayers, including those from regions with no train at all, fund the extension of our line?
For all of the merits outlined, there is a significant lack of detail of costings laid out in this piece. Any reopening of the line to the north will cost in the order of 100’s of millions of tax payers dollars. A rail trail is in the millions, two orders of magnitude less. Unless rail can deliver two orders of magnitude in economic benefic, there is no case to be made here.
Scotty Harrison you are absolutely right the costings for the rail trail are ridiculous and will cost more to put it in. Than it is to reopen the rail line.
Phill Phill clearly you have a long an prosperous career ahead in bridge building and engineering…
Whats so funnyMedia: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2592141044519038&set=p.2592141044519038&type=3
Phill Phill is a Dumb Dumb.
Phill Phill Phill you have it the wrong way around. You don’t need super strong bridges for bicycle. 😆😅🤣😂😜🤪
Phill Phill what they don’t understand about rail trails is the twenty million build it and they will come dosnt happen, that twenty is basic construction, to get it to the build and they will come tourism level they are lead to believe it will be, requires a hell of alot more money for facilities, rebuilding stations, cattle grids, toilets, picnic areas, landscaping, bridge repairs, art works and points of interest, lookouts, swimming holes ECT ECT ECT.
For twenty million pretty much all they get are rails removed and the old ballast bulldozed.
The people have been sold a bunch of lies about a tourism attraction, it won’t be, it won’t even be a good local bike path it will be nothing more then a bush goat track.
Scotty Harrison See what’s happening in Qld – 610 km from Thallon to Toowoomba being resleepered with 100,000 sleepers. 1000 a day going in for both grain and railtourism. A great pity NSW contracted out track maintenance, QR did not and get the job done very efficiently. 440 grain trains plus tourism in a year. Tap up WATCO for the grain side.
Bunjurgen Estate Vineyard All that Grain traffic between Glen and Tenterfield will surely pay the hundreds of millions required…
Bruce Driver plenty of grain from Warwick area can make its way to Newcastle by rail
And we could also see abotoirs reopen here with the feedlots we have and meat being exported as well
Tanya Langdon where in Australia does processed meat travel by train these days? Yep – nowhere!
Warwick grain does not need or want to go to a coal port 900km away on a line where 300km of tracks needs a $800,000,000.00 upgrade. If needed, it can jump on inland rail and join up with Grain from Moree.
Bruce Driver processed meat used to still travel by rail in Warwick in the late 1990s you’ve got a major meatworks there with a rail line in the middle of it. Same as wallangarra right beside the rail line, and there’s expressions of interest to bring one to Glen/Guyra, as well as meat processing in Tamworth. All on refrigerated containers, easy to transport load and unload.
The livestock industry needs more processing places as traveling stock is reducing weight, quality, bruising, bio security risks as we are seeing more and more outbreaks of disease and virus, weeds ECT. And as populations here and globally boom, we now have more mouths to feed.
Tanya Langdon Tap up WATCO They are the private train operator on the South West line in Qld. A US company with a great record.
Bunjurgen Estate Vineyard we are perfectly positioned here to compliment a rail network. Something Australia desperately needs to reduce freight costs, secure supply chains, keep up with modern day pressures.
We are falling behind the rest of the world.
The governments want a 30% shift of freight to rail, but without rail lines it makes that impossible.
Wether people like it believe it or lump it Australia is reinvesting in rail, we will bring building and maintenance back here, we will be upgrading networks, digitally overhauling our systems, making rail networks more compatible when it comes to breaks in gauges, uniform and streamline, it’s going on right now. Just like the rest of the world, rail revival is happening and logistics companies are investing and overseas investors will come as they know the value it will bring to trade.
Tanya Langdon Nice try – but not economic reality. Who’s going to pay for an upgrade on a whim?
Cycleways only benefit the young and fit; passenger trains benefit everybody who wants an alternative to cars to get places.
Well its a rail trail, not a cycle way, and even wheelchair bound folks enjoy rail trails. So do older folks, even those who choose to hike a rail trail. There is no evidence presented by Trains North or other rail lobbying group that rail will return to the line in our life times. And even if it did in the next 30yrs it would need to be upgraded to a modern standard, meaning that most of the infrastructure currently there would need replacing.
Eve Sinton The evidence (other rail trails in NZ and Oz) certainly suggests otherwise. Come to Brighton in Vic and see the oldies enjoying the trail.
And there are already cost effective alternatives to cars.
Shane McGee I’m almost 70 & I ride our Rail Trail (NRRT) at least 3 days a week all 48km. I have even older friends that ride it as well. We have Cycling without Age trishaws that take our frail oldies & less able folk for rides 3 days a week, wonderful volunteers provide this service & I see so many smiling faces when I see them out on the trail. Eve Stinton
Bruce Driver Thanks, I’ve seen the rail trail in Northern NSW and Victoria is thousands of k’s from where I live. It does have benefits, as I say, for the young and the fit but not for people like me. I’d prefer a public asset: passenger rail services.
Get fit Eve of get a battery assisted bike.
Eve Sinton you’ve got buses use them.
We are not talking about a cycle way but a rail trail.
Rail trails are beneficial to people of all ages because they have very gentle gradients allowing people of all levels of fitness to use them.
The number of people who want an alternative to cars to get places is minuscule, especially with trains only being useful for the tiny proportion of journeys where the passenger lives near and needs to travel to places close to railway stations.
Nobody is going to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to reinstate a railway through a sparsely populated area and millions of dollars in operating subsidies every year for a handful of passengers to use it.
Eve Sinton At what cost? NSW loses hundreds of millions of dollars per year on country passenger rail services. How much extra tax do you want to pay? What other areas do you want cut back to allow for the extra railways to be funded? Put it this way, you can update three regional hospitals a year for less than NSW already loses on country passenger services. Would you be happy if NSW stopped upgrading hospitals to pay for more railways? The money has to come from somewhere. PS we in the regions already get the same per-capita funding for public transport as those in the major cities do, so we cannot claim to be discriminated against in this respect.
Scotty Harrison. I often wonder what Mr Grange’s real interests are. Yes, there isn’t enough money in our treasury’s to fund a line with the purpose of transporting 6 passenger a day at best. Also geographical landscapes in the New England is the worst for rail infrastructure. Can I comment, yes, 30 years in rail infrasture Including New England Northwest.
I know, it’s hard to understand. I don’t wish to speculate, as I don’t think that’s in good character. Instead I think it’s important to make clear, succinct points that highlight that the “division” on this topic is the difference between chosing a rail trail that anyone from the community can use, with relatively small ongoing costs for maintenance, with an initial investment from grant funding providing most of the heavy lifting, versus a very unrealistic choice with orders of magnitude initial investment required with questionable economic assumptions about possible returns to the region. One of these is low-risk (rail trail) while the other would be a huge risk in terms of investment. So I don’t even see this as a divisive topic in that regards. Its one good option, and the other a pipe dream.
Grahame Mark McClenaghan I think Siri is just lonely & bored & this is how they fill their time 🤷🏼♀️
Be cooler (plus more useful) if they learnt to crochet instead 😂
As lobby hobbies go, fighting to reinstate regional railways is perfect. Adherents can be completely confident that it will never be necessary to find a new cause due to the original cause having been achieved.
There shouldn’t need to be an economic benefit.it seems that governments have forgotten that they are meant to make our lives better. That we vote them in to provide services that support us. That Australia used to be a social democracy and we thrived.
Now we are a capitalist democracy and we aren’t.
Oh and if the economic benefit is a requirement please explain the $50+ millions spent on the Karmay Ferry Wharf in Kurnell. It goes no where as there is none just two glorified fishing platforms that weren’t asked for, serve no purpose and create no economic benefit past the build.
https://cityhub.com.au/sydney-to-unveil-78-million-ferry-wharves-ferries-not-included/
Media: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2592056061194203&set=p.2592056061194203&type=3
A romantic notion of Choo Choo trains puffing along with the clackity-clack of steel wheels. An anachronism of the highest order and wasteful to appease the minority. Look at southern NSW and Newcastle and see how rail trails have improved life.
Chris Celovic the “oh so popular full of wallets on wheels” Tumbarumba RT yesterday! Cricket’s! A complete waste of money.Media: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10164028776015798&set=p.10164028776015798&type=3
Chris CelovicChris Celovic No one is talking of choo choo trains. Railtourism is booming. Check out Southern Downs, Mary Valley Rattler, Kuranda-Cairns, and the Savannahlander.
The Armidale Council doesn’t own the line, so not their decision.
Ask Goondiwindi if 300 overnight stays is worth it, ask Stanthorpe if 150 coffees on the platform is worth it.
If the Lycra set want a cycle track, build it next to the rail line.
Bunjurgen Estate Vineyard it’s not about the Lycra set. Come to Victoria and see what it’s really about. Families, oldies, all sorts. Thousands of them.
Bunjurgen Estate Vineyard the Mary Valley Rattler runs at a huge loss every year subsidised by the rate payers.
Bunjurgen Estate Vineyard lycra set… wtf
Chris Celovic Bike trails are great, just not at the expense of viable existing rail infrastructure.
Peter Ellston the Main North past Armidale isn’t viable.
Peter key word being “viable”…
Peter Ellston unviable rail lines make excellent rail trails. The clue is in the name.
Robin Wills viable a 20milluin dollar bike path for 20 users a day (weather permitting) at a cost of 550k per kilometre to build plus maintenance+ (resurfacing everytime we get rain) and people think that’s viable, a bike path. That no one pays to ride.
The trail haters and trainiacs said the Northern Rivers Rail Trail would only attract a handful of users. How wrong were they?
The compacted fine gravel used on most of it is very durable surface. It is quite ridiculous to claim that maintenance means having to resurface a trail every time it rains.
It is those kinds of nonsense and lies that ultimately destroyed the credibility of the train lobby in Tweed, Byron and Lismore. It is steadily doing the same on the New England.
Bike trails are no use to the elderly or the very young, or parents with small children. Passenger rail services will provide the most benefit to the most people. Cyclists have plenty of existing roads to pedal on.
Eve Sinton how ignorant you are.
Rail trails are excellent for oldies, youngsters and families alike. Come to Victoria and see! My kids travelled the full length of several rail trails – one was only 8 months old. My five year old was safe riding his own bike – as if a (steep) road shared with cars is better??
The last time passenger trains went to Glen there were only two or three people per train. Passenger trains closed for good reason.
We can continue with buses and give every hospital in the region $200 million each OR we can get the trains back for two people a day.
Chris Celovic Not true. Have a look at the Tweed Valley Rail trail. Actually go to Murwillumbah and hire a bike for the day. You will then see what rail trails are about. Every weekend hundreds of young families, with littlies in carts and tricycles or pedalling their own bikes are making use of the rail trail. Walkers of every age use the trail daily, especially the elderly, great exercise. No interaction with vehicles , no trips and falls on gutters or steps, easy gradient and safe. The Tweed Shire towns of Murwillumbah, Burringbar and Mooball are thriving because of the people and industry that the Rail Trail brings. All the time smart people are inventing ways to use and make business from Rail trails. I recently visited the South Burnett rail trail, the Brisbane Valley Rail Trail, the Mary Valley and Wamuran rail trails. All are popular and all are boosting economic activity in these towns. The Adelaide hills , McLaren Vale and the Barossa have stunning rail trails, built from abandoned and unused railway easements. The trains are never coming back.
Chris Celovic Hi Chris, I can appreciate where you are coming from, for if rail transportation is an anachronism, it is not worthy of investment. However, rail transportation is experiencing rapid growth internationally, except in those countries who have given up on building infrastructure that created and would maintain their wealth. The US is the best example where infrastructural investment has declined. The same happened in Britain. Both are nations in decline. However, those countries that invest in their infrastructure, such as China, experience economic growth and development.
The argument that it is costly is not valid. The line in New England was built in much harsher economic circumstances than today. Today our country is much richer, and could easily afford the price. The Sydney network costs one billion dollars per kilometre to construct, with many projects being undertaken and on the books. The New England cost would be at the most three billion dollars. Most honest working people are intimidated by these numbers, however, in the world of nation building the numbers are doable.
Peter Ellston Even if those costs are correct, it’s still a huge amount of money. Armidale Council cannot get some $124 million to upgrade our drinking water. In such a situation why spend vastly more on one rail line through one area? And in the name of fairness, how can we demand that we get an even better rail service when so many other areas have none? To provide all country areas with a rail service like the one you want will not cost $3 billion – it will cost many times that because if we deserve a new rail line then so does the far South Coast, the Monaro, the Riverina, the far west, the upper Hunter, and just about every other region. Finally, comparison wit the UK, USA and China ignores the fact that (1) they have far higher population density so their trains can get much more patronage; and (2) they are not concentrating on spending on lines that, like the one in New England, runs through country that is inherently innefficient for trains. The New England (old Main Northern) line is inherently twisty and hilly which is why the Sydney-Brisbane express was so much slower when it ran through New England than when the flatter, straighter North Coast line opened. Those of us who support rail should not be crippling them by demanding that money be spent in areas where rail is inherently less efficient than it is east or west of us.
Yes and despite being considerably faster than the Great Northern Line, the North Coast Line is still painfully slow and so beset by curves that trains undertake the equivalent of 150 complete circles between Maitland and Brisbane. Many curves have radii of less than 400 metres, critically limiting speeds.
Very Fast Trains have tracks with a minimum radius of four kilometres. There is no point reinstating steam age anachronisms and pretending they are a key to a modern transport system.
Chris Celovic Europe, Japan and Asia seem to value intelligent rail connections !Perhaps they are not in touch with realities !
It is you who is not in touch with realities. Let’s get some perspective.
Japan has considerably more than four times Australia’s population in an area half the size of NSW. More than ninety percent of Japanese live in urbanised areas, mostly very large cities.
Europe has thirty times Australia’s population with major cities closely spaced. Their rail network connects to billions more people across Asia.
China’s population if fifty times Australia’s.
NSW is spending money on trains in areas of high population density. More than eighty percent of people of NSW live in the area serviced by Sydney trains, which carry about a million passengers each day. 250,000 people pass through Central Station each day.
Now let’s acknowledge the population of Guyra, Glen Innes and Tenterfield combined is less than 15,000, which is about 0.2 percent of the population of NSW. A single suburb in Sydney has a much higher population.
Hear. Hear. Reopen the line and connect the region, as well as those nearby, with QLD. It just makes sense.
No it doesn’t at the cost of many hundreds of millions of dollars. Even if it is done, people will be kicked off the train at the border. Complete nonsense to think it is viable or worthwhile.
Brad Hayne Not economic sense that’s for sure.
Bruce Driver 🙄
Brad Hayne Explain to me how a ‘hundreds of millions of dollars’ rail upgrade is better than the under-utilised buses we already have? Could we not give that money to schools and hospitals?
Bruce Driver the money needed to be spent to build the bike track (for a handful of users) could also go to schools and hospitals.
– It is not a bike track. Change the record.
Brad Hayne Nope – a rail trail costs 1% the amount and the benefits from such a venture would pay for themselves in better health outcomes and increased tourism. This has already been demonstrated elsewhere, such as Bright in Victoria – who see wayyyy more than a ‘handful of users’.
Bruce Driver Trains are much better transport than buses for a start.
Debby O’Brien -they sure are! But a Tesla is 10x better than an old Commodore. Yet many of us drive old ice vehicles…
Trains need dedicated safe tracks to run on. Buses need roads to run on. Now there’s a clue… We have buses and we have roads. There are no trains available and zero chance of any tacks to run on.
Bruce DriverMedia: https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia0.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2Fv1.Y2lkPTk5OWFjZWFjanZubmFzenFybmswanB1d3czZ3UyaTQzMTJ3MGIwajBkazQ3ODlqNCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n%2F3o7Zeq71i5w0vOnAZy%2Fgiphy.gif&h=AT3BkgJoKbWZAvrd3KkXZdDsXAPceIu2blM9YEu9bd6ygtoamd6p05Zp8wWkkGztoBVvVjS87c834xsn2t76AeT3fFxTYxByz3CtkaqZv50MQ9mase33BIRyhmY0wagy&s=1
Brad Hayne way more than a handful of people use rail trails buddy.Media: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10231610656797358&set=p.10231610656797358&type=3
Brad Hayne sense to whom? Madmen?
Brad Hayne A few years back, NSW country rail lost almost $2 BILLION in a single financial year. That’s four times what the rebuilding of Port Macquarie hospital cost, for example. Rail is great for many uses but we have to recognise that country rail costs an enormous amount to run. We who live in the regions already get as much per capital public transport funding as those in the major cities so we cannot claim to be the poor relations. Finally but critically, the old Northern Line was built to mid-1800s standards, with grades far tighter than those a modern fast train requires. In fact the Northern Line is so slow that when the North Coast line was opened, you could catch a train from Sydney to Brisbane EIGHT HOURS faster on the coast.
For the naysayers, check out what is happening on the SouthWest line in QLD. QR is resleepering 610 km of track for a combination of commercial and rail tourism. 100 000 sleepers going in at the rate of 1000 per day.
You guys can do the same if you wanted to from Armidale to Wallangarra. Couple of hundred km. At the QR rate you’d have it done in 30 days. Replace a few bridges, none with any extreme engineering issues and address a few highway crossings. Put a private company in to run the commercial and tourism trains. Lease the track to the private company.
Works in SE QLD really well, around Brisbane in the Commissioner’s train with fine dining. The Mary Valley Rattler. The Inlander. Cairns Kuranda twice a day. The Savannahlander.
You are missing a great opportunity.
Start benchmarking and stop procrastinating.
Let the cyclists ride on a track next to the rail line if demand is so great.
Finally, it’s not the Armidale Council’s line.
Bunjurgen Estate Vineyard have you seen that collapsed bridge north of Tenterfield? Major rebuild would be necessary there. Have you seen what business the BVRT and the NNRT generate?
Russel Scholl Not to mention that the line north of Glen Innes is in areas that are difficult for construction equipment needed to upgrade the line to modern standards.
Russel Scholl no I haven’t seen what the rail trails generate, no one has, the only stats available are general tourism stats. That go up with or without rail trails.
Of course you have not seen what rail trails generate. You wouldn’t want to disrupt you prejudices with facts.
Plenty of others have seen the effect rail trails have first hand. The effects of the NRRT on Murwillumbah, Burringbar and Mooball have been dramatic. Businesses that were on the brink are now thriving. New owners are investing a lot of money in the Mooball Hotel because it is in a prime location for trail patronage. It isn’t just the money spent by trail users that is injected into the economy.
A professional study found that the trail contributed $3.7 million to the local economy in its first year of operation.
https://www.northernriversrailtrail.com.au/about-northern-rivers-rail-trail/users-and-usage/rail-trail-patronage-data
Russel Scholl Not sure what your experience is in construction but that is not a big job. If we building a 3 km causeway and viaduct maybe. My biggest coordinating job was $485 million and there is nothing on that line that poses a significant problem. Engineers design and construct. They react to a clear concept. In reality a sage approach to that line redevelopment is to Phase it. Armidale to Guyra, then Guyra to Glen, etc.. Big advantage that way is you remove the distractions. Keep putting up issues is not the objective. A clear phased concept and get political support. Same way we drove it hard here to get 35 000 ppl touring farms in 28 days spending $7 million. Get the ppl behind you and force, cajole, threaten and achieve a supportive political outcome. We muscled up here and broke fracking: wonderful hands down and saved our water: beat ARROW Energy, half PRC, half Dutch Shell. It’s all in the focussed leadership.
https://experiencesomerset.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/BVRT-Visitor-Research-Program-Phase-2-FINAL-REPORT.pdf
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=0bd29032c56ba12b7910f33c9f85db1b4795d7e17f53397752bbd6b221ff08a7JmltdHM9MTc2MjQ3MzYwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=4&fclid=3ad8496e-c69c-605b-3f95-5f6ac29c6203&psq=bvrt+user+data&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cudG1yLnFsZC5nb3YuYXUvXy9tZWRpYS90cmF2ZWxhbmR0cmFuc3BvcnQvY3ljbGluZy9iaWtlLXRvdXJpc20vYnZydC1iaWtlLXRvdXJpc20tY2FzZS1zdHVkeS5wZGY_c2NfbGFuZz1lbiZoYXNoPTJDRTMxQ0VBMkU0OEQ4NEVCNjlFODcyMjMzMUJBMDMx
Tanya Langdon for the NRRT region, the biggest tourism $ drawcard for the year before and in the opening year was the Splendour in the Grass music festival, not the trail.
Bunjurgen Estate Vineyard How have your reached your statement that there’s nothing that poses a significant problem?
The permanent way needs significant realignment to meet modern safety standards. There are 6 level crossings that need to be reinstated and another that crosses the New England Highway that needs to be removed. There are 6 bridges between Deepwater and Tenterfield alone that need to be replaced.
Apart from that the proposal that railways improve tourism is open to criticism.
Who is going to fund the local infrastructure required to support any increase in passengers?
There is no to town bus service in Glen Innes, the taxi doesn’t operate between 10pm Saturday night and 6am Monday morning. There is no hire car operator.
Just what does a tourist do if they decided to travel 8+ hours from Sydney on a train with no internet access and only patchy mobile phone service?
As for local passengers to larger centres from Tenterfield , Glen Innes or Guyra where do the passengers spend their day after a medical appointment? Where do they go to the toilet? How do they get from the railway station to the surgeries, or the shops?
Chris Horgan keep asking real questions that the train enthusiasts will ignore, because everyday people are not as well versed in these areas and need to see the conversations to realise how silly, expensive and useless the train idea really would be.
The Wallangarra section in Queensland is permanently closed. What are you suggesting any NSW connection would achieve? https://www.hoby.co.nz/maps/RR%20reading/pdf6/Stanthorpe%20to%20Wallangarra%20line%20closure%20from%20Railway-Digest-May-2024-LowRes-3.pdf
Bunjurgen Estate Vineyard So let’s use QLD as an example as you did. For a start, they are NOT working on rail willy-nilly or in every area, as shown by the rejection of the upgrade in Townsville. They are making upgrades only where there are factors like strong existing freight demand and large-scale population growth. Secondly, the mere upgrade to the Beerburrum to Nambour line was going to cost $20 million per kilometre years ago. That’s far more than some claim the NSW line will cost to rebuild and therefore make the business case far weaker. Thirdly, the study for that line highlights the old issue of the limited capacity of a single-line railway – passengers outside peak periods currently have to take the bus to allow freight trains to run. The same issue could be a bugbear for a revitalised line through Armidale, but like the fact that the line was limited even by 1800s standards it is ignored. So without going into further examples, the inference that because Qld is doing SOME upgrades then the New England line should be extended just doesn’t stand up.
So, is Qld Rail rebuilding the track to Wallangarra?
James King nope
James King No.
James King hahaha funny. Unused line. Can’t imagine the budget stretching too that.
James King estimate of repair cost of over $20M for the short section from Ballendean to Wallangara due to fire damage to five minor bridge structures. Qld Government decision opted to close the line.
James King in emergency response to the bushfire Qld gov and qr commited immediate funds to fix ballendean station and siding, so the train could go as far as it could possibly go, past Stanthorpe. They acknowledge the importance of the rail line and how much tourism and revenue the southern downs heritage train brings to the region. There’s plans to revamp and open up the Wallangarra train precinct.
Although they haven’t committed funding in full amount, the southern downs council, Queensland government and Queensland rail will continue with funding and repairs as money becomes available.
Currently they are fixing sleepers towards the northern end to Toowoomba.
Sometimes I ask myself …” why are ‘they” so opposed to bringing real rail back ” ???”
Businesses can maintain a monopoly with a stalled population.
Joanne Cause who are the “they” here?
Joanne Cause they is the state government who are the only people who could fund such a project . They have decided that the business case does not stack up
Joanne Cause There is no “they” (at least not a coordinated group) it’s just common sense not to bother wasting billions on repairing a line nobody would be able to use even if the demand is there (which it really isn’t)
Joanne Cause Because even upgrading existing lines can cost $20 million per kilometre, and we feel such a vast amount of money can be much better spent elsewhere.
The rail lobby are not interested in public transport. If they were, they would support other public transport options (most obviously, buses) which would be much cheaper and more flexible than restoring a passenger rail service. They complain endlessly about the cost of a rail trail, yet don’t care how many hundreds of millions it would cost to rebuild the rail line, nor the ongoing operational costs. If they’d put their rail fantasy aside and got out of the way, we’d have a rail trail already – and a lot of the historic rail infrastructure along the line could have been maintained and preserved instead of falling apart.
Good argument re: buses. Cost effective, cheap, builds demand for a route. Where is their advocacy for this form of public transport? I used to catch the bus to Brisbane (Greyhound) but it closed down years ago due to lack of demand. That was a good route.
Bruce Myers it closed when the COVID border closures were on and never reopened.
It’s ridiculous that there isn’t at least one return bus a day across the border.
Bruce Myers years ago I rode the Greyhound from Sydney to Canberra when planes were out. Haven’t caught an intercity bus since…
Mike Young buses are an awful way to travel on a long journey. Ten mins is more then enough for a bus ride.
Anyone who thinks the train is coming back is delusional. We can use the line as a rail trail and attract tourism to our region or do nothing. Those are our only options.
If reinstating the rail is not yet viable, it should be left alone until it is. This trail business is a waste of money benefitting very few.
Michelle Grace You had better get out and have a look at places like Esk, Kingaroy, Murwillumbah, Tumbarumba.
Bill Larkin Tumbarumba is 21km of sealed pathway in the middle of nowhere. It’s hardly a commuter trail 😉
– What nonsense. Time you did some research
Michelle Grace yeah nah it’s never going to be viable 🤷🏼♀️
The only thing I have to say about or for a rail trail is that it should be privately funded.
Our government shouldn’t be putting funds towards either project, but they could and should invest in better bus services for us all.
Considering this is the state of the rail bridge just south of Wallangarra and some bridges don’t even exist as they have been left to rot or were burnt two years ago from a fire will never be repaired or replaced.
So can not see any rail line being reinstated to Wallangarra and it’s the same when you leave Wallangarra and head north .. some bridges don’t even exist and will never be repaired or replaced…!!Media: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2637725933251377&set=p.2637725933251377&type=3
The Rail bridge between Tenterfield and Wallangarra has been left to rot and is now starting to collapseMedia: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2637727746584529&set=p.2637727746584529&type=3
Why is ARC attempting to, seemingly, force this whole rail trail thing through? So there are a some vociferous supporters but, most folks aren’t interested. Is there some hidden agenda to all this or vested interests? Why is it being pursued?
Martin Witchard One could say, that with Barnaby’s announced retirement, that Mayor Sam Coupland – Armidale Regional Council is eying this as an opportunity. Why not? So where will Barnaby go? My guess – and it’s only a guess – is that he’ll become a lobbyist, perhaps for the National Road Transport Association. Any suggestion that the Mayor is doing Barnaby’s bidding is expressly dismissed, but it would be worth a question in Parliament to stop the rumour mill.
Martin Witchard Why do people only ask this question of the rail trail advocates? Surely in the name of consistency and honesty we must ask the same question about the passenger rail advocates. I’m not convinced that a rail trail would be a success but speaking as someone who has spent years running a community group I can tell you from personal experience that many of us support things that could bring more tourism and activity to the region simply because we love this region and want to see it do well. The rail trail advocates are probably in the same boat. It’s depressing to see people insulted when there is no evidence whatsoever that they have any vested interests.
there is a perfectly good highway north that cyclists can use – why do you need another bike path?
Perhaps those against a NE Rail Trail need to go for a ride along one and see the how they’re used by people locally, from all over the country and from os.
Robyn Norman I visited several so called “popular” rail trails and on most occasions observed no one using the trails!
Robyn Norman make a the bike trails, but keep the rail corridor.
a train to the border would be great for the new England should have been consided with the inland rail
Toby Linnane so what is it going to connect to at the border ?
Inland rail needs flat land – the line through New England includes the highest point on a railway in the entire continent. Modern railways need a minimum of curves – the line through New England has so many tight curves – it’s so curvy that even 100 years ago the fastest new locomotives couldn’t be used on the trains to New England. The old Sydney-Brisbame express was a full eight hours sower when it ran through Armidale than it became when the flatter North Coast Line was built. Railways are highly technical things, people who are not experts don’t know enough about the basics to tell people where the lines should go.
Reinstating trains to Wallangara? What romantic nonsense. The last time trains ran to Glenn/Tenterfield there was two or three passengers per train. Services ran at a huge loss. Since then, the line has been sealed over and bridges condemned. Get real.
Bruce Driver you mean the once weekly train service on a Friday.
Yea I can see why numbers dwindled as the gov pushed people onto buses because they couldn’t be bothered fixing or replacing the hundreds year old carriages they were using.
Tanya Langdon yes indeed. Count the people on the (magnitudes cheaper to run) bus, too. I’ve been in that very train and loved it, but its days are done.
Bruce Driver this isn’t 1980 anymore. You need to stop living in the past.
Tanya Langdon Huh? You need to start living in the present! Just to be clear- I might like trains, but if this is a rail trail vs passenger train debate, I am 100% in favour of a rail trail.
Bruce Driver I mean the 80’s was a really cool time with really good music and stuff, it was a fun time to be alive. But you can’t unpack and stay there. Yes rail trails came about in the 80s when rail was being decommissioned in some places as funding was funneled into other infrastructure and the governments begun to privatise everything, in the 80’s a rt might have been a good idea to revive the dying towns, in the 80’s, markets were changing, new technology becoming available, the mobile phone and internet were real game changers in the 90’s. I can’t argue with you either, fun times, but now we are moving back to rural Australia, not moving out, populations are growing, the pressure of traffic, the costs of building ever growing hiways and bypasses as our little towns outgrow the highways, more produce to ports as world trade dominates, more mouths to feed, more gadgets to play with as we rack up personal debts to have the latest of the latest, diesels not cheap anymore, trucks aren’t ex army surplus any more, and maintaining and buying the car means lots of dollars.
Oh boy the 80’s were good, but they are long long gone now.
Time to take old new England into the future. Reopen the line from Toowoomba to Tamworth as Toowoomba build rail to connect to Brisbane. Better transport and freight networks, get the cost of living crisis down paying ridiculous amounts for freight in a truck driving industry that can’t keep up with demands, drivers and costs, and roads and repairs are costing us trillions around the country.
Tanya Langdon yes, you only need one driver for a train instead of (say) 100 to drive trucks that hold less freight than a train.
Stephen Cooke Not true – railways require all sorts of staff – and when those 100 truck loads of goods get to stations like Guyra or Tenterfield, 100 trucks and 100 drivers are needed to take them to where they need to go.
When Coles in Glen get a delivery, it all comes straight to store from the distribution centre on the central coast. Handled once in 1/3 time. How can a train compete with that?
Tanya Langdon To start with its just not a suitable place to build a community bike track because only the very fit would manage it which not only throws the projected numbers but the financials under the bus. Tourists come to this area not to ride bikes but to see the natural wonders on the eastern side as they pass through on holiday by the sea side the same as people that live here.
Comparing results with places such as Queenstown NZ and our coastal regions for instance where they have 10s of millions of visitors to say Guyra hoping that a bike track would produce similar interest is pure fantasy.
If we want to make better use of what already exists for cyclists just extend the cycleway beyond the University to Dumaresq Dam where millions have been invested for that very reason costing very little in comparison for a far greater return.
Bruce Driver containerised freight welcome to the new century.
It’s not about making trucks obsolete lol it’s about making better ways for middle miles. And instead of road trains chewing up highways costing billions we can use smaller trucks and put the heavy loads on steel rails where they belong.
Tanya Langdon I’d love to see that. But Coles in Glen is NOT going to get their avocados delivered in a shipping container. You rebuild the railway and see if you can turn a buck!
Brian Flint you really don’t get it. Rail trails work because they cater for all comers. I have ridden my share with three generations of our whole family – stopping in towns along the way. Not sure the Booralong Pub or the Dumeresque Dam Caravan Park is going to cut it for a bed and a meal.
But at the end of the day, trains are not returning in your lifetime.
Bruce Driver, and who is going to pay for the maintance of the bike, and how much is it going to cost per km to build and Maintain?
Chris Preston Well… the question depends on standard of trail. In Victoria, they are partly maintained by volunteers with grants in some places. The better trails are sealed (asphalt) – less maintenance and better riding, but install in more expensive. The biggest costs are for things like toilets and car parks. The alignment itself is ready to go.
Bruce Driver.
You are more than welcome to come here and ride your bike on the road alongside the railway line all the way to the top of the mountain dodging snakes and spend several thousand dollars while doing it as they are hoping for. Trains are already replacing other forms of transport across the entire planet they even cross oceans so when the time comes to make it happen it won’t be with pick and shovel this time if that’s what you’re thinking have a great day.
Brian Flint I have already ridden my bike on the road alongside the railway line! I have a photo of it on Black mountain station. The road goes up hill and down dale, whereas the rail line is a ready-made, steady grade with no motor vehicles. Perfect for all ages cycling!
Bruce Driver Obviously you didn’t ride from Armidale to Black Mountain for even the trains had to reduce loads beyond Armidale because of the climb and that was after coming from Tamworth. Ten years on and still no further with this rail trail for obvious reasons. Guyra missed out on having this for rather than taking what was on offer in the first place certain people had other ideals which resulted in the Bushfire grant money being lost silly boys.
Media: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10231588125594092&set=p.10231588125594092&type=3
New England TimesMedia: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10231588128114155&set=p.10231588128114155&type=3
Bring back the trains! Make new England NEW again.
Yes a train returning i can just see everyone leaving there cars at home
Phillip Davidge The millenials, gen zeds, and alpha generations just might.
I’m for the trains. Not all of us ride bikes even though we probably should. We need to look after those who can’t drive, can’t afford airfares and can’t go on the bus due to accessibility.
What will benefit the those who are less privileged and the environment.
More electric trains less trucks and buses.
❤️
Anne-Marie Hodson But where is the eviidence that the train is the best way to spend public funds to cater for such people? We already spend close to 2 billion per annum on country passenger services – where is the extra money for extra services to come from? Would that money be best spent on trains, or on some other measure to help people with disabilities? What disability means that people cannot take a bus but can take a train? Why should people with such a disability who live in Eden, Bega, Inverell, or the many other towns without any train have to do without, so that we in the New England region can get more trains?
The line is in total disrepair, but the labor government are happy to waste money so maybe if they get a few foreign flags and fly them on the line they might throw a few billion at it
Trains, not trails.
My main concern with this ongoing debate is the division it’s creating in our community. We’d be far better off working toward a shared direction. The simplest and fairest way to settle this is with a vote limited to Armidale Regional Council residents, as they’re the ones paying for the project. If the majority backs the Rail Trail, then we get on with delivering it. If they don’t, then the decision is clear and we move forward as a community.
Lou Forsythe not much of a solution really though as it doesn’t take into account anything on the QLD side… Like it wouldn’t matter if every single person here agreed, QLD still aren’t going to meet you at the border so it’s a lost cause 🤷🏼♀️
Liz Wharton Again Liz, I hadn’t mentioned the Train debate at all and my comment had nothing to do with that. My comment was purely to gain the consensus of our community on whether they want a Bike Trail. I have edited my comment and replaced the word “Rail Trail” with “Bike Trail” so it is more obvious what I was referring to. 🙂
Lou Forsythe good idea except that a rail line of this size belongs to NSW, not just locals.
Debby O’Brien I hadn’t mentioned the rail line at all, my comment was purely to gain the consensus of our community on whether they want a Bike Trail. I have edited my comment and replaced the word “Rail Trail” with “Bike Trail” so it is more obvious what I was referring to. 🙂
Rail further north than Armidale is pie in the sky thinking
Nikk MacRae that’s what they said back then, before it was built.
Stephen Cooke…and its status now?
Nikk MacRae starved into rack and ruin by lack of maintenance.
Stephen Cooke …and lack of patronage, lack of industry supporting it.
Nikk MacRae the line being closed is a certain cause of “lack of patronage”, yeah?
Stephen Cooke Who? When? Yes, the experts didn’t want the line to go to Armidale but that is only because running through’ Armidale meant that the line was steeper, more curved and slower than the route further west that it was meant to take – but I challenge you to state who said the railway north of Armidale was “pie in the sky”.
– Yep. Lack of patronage and no freight. 20 odd passengers a day on the coach now from Armidale through to Tenterfield. It is insanity to suggest 36 years later suddenly there will be viable
numbers of passengers. Suggest you wear your Friends of Rail Trails moderator hat and advocate for the rail trail at a fraction of the cost of rebuilding a 1900s railway….
Chris Thompson you mean “back then”?
Nikk MacRae says the one who has rail transport but quick to deny it to others not so lucky.
Bill Good alot of Australia doesn’t have rail transport.
Nikk MacRae
Bill Good People in the New England region have better rail transport than those in the South Coast, for example – so why should we demand more when they have nothing?
– you keep driving your car Bill. Just like
everyone else who decided that a slow meandering train is no substitute for personal on demand transport. That is why there are are 20 million registered cars in Australia.
With the cost of living skyrocketing, businesses closing, health and education departments in desperate need of funding, along with local infrastructure projects up in the air and the weight of net zero on our doorstep. Here we are at the crossroads of balancing finances and direction with councils wanting to spend upwards of 60 million on a bike track that not only lacks government and community support they come hell or high water won’t take no for an answer.
Yeah just keep on beating that dead horse Siri, the crazy wagon must go on right 😂 😂
There would only be two men and a dog catching any service North of Armidale. That was the reason the line closed in the first place. Killed by the lack of continuous standard gauge from north of Wallangarra. Coast line has standard gauge all the way to Brisbane. The biggest white elephant though, will be the Inland Rail. No freight company will use it with triple handling.
David Johnson how is the inland rail triple handling out of curiosity??
The two councils have taken up a proposal from those wanting a rail trail within the corridor while not listening to thousands of residents and rate payers to be ab=n advocate for all forms of transport for the region including the extension of train services to Glen Innes and beyond. There is something like a hidden hand behind such decisions but details are sketchy allowing people to conjecture. It is time that the two councils call round table discussions of all stakeholders who want to use the rail corridor for futre operations -be they heritage trains or freight trains- and identify common interest,develop a better plan and then seek govt funding with a united community. If the councils moe along with the partisan approach,they will fail again.
Siri Gamage The insinuations of bias that you make without any evidence just make you look less credible. If you are going to insinuate that there is a “hidden hand”: behind advocacy for the rail trail (which I’m not convinced would be a big success for other reasons) then others can insinuate that you and other advocates for a rail extension are also biased and operating on behalf of vested interests. You should either show some evidence for these claims or stop making them.